Who Is Bob

. . The Fogbees know Bruce and me, but some have asked "Who is Bob?"  A picture is worth a thousand words.
. . Apparently wearing orange garbage bags is popular in Australia.  Also, for those who do not know me, I am not in the above picture with Bruce and Bob.  That is David Irvine (aka DTI). Also, if you've every been on a tour with DTI, you'll know he likes to travel light similar to Bob.
. . Bob has added a link to his CrazyGuyOnABike journals for additional introduction

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/aussiebob

Traveling With A Bike

We're working out alternatives to haul all the bike to/from Jackson and from the end of the TransAm ride.  If you planning to go your own way click here for stuff I lifted from the Active.com newsletter.  I also added to the planning list in the right sidebar.

Rooming Arrangements

Click Here for a spreadsheet to show the rooming arrangements.  Please send me your corrections and updates and I will try to keep this spreadsheet current.  It has been initiated with what everyone has shared with me on 10/21/13

Important Room Strategy

. . Our potential problem is to get accommodations for everyone.  Because the Yellowstone locations do not have a cancellation fee, please book what you believe you'll need with the "shares" you believe you have.  Our problem is a potential shortage of beds, especially at Yellowstone Lake.  After everyone has done their best to get their needs, we can reshuffle everyone to get rid of any excess rooms, if we are lucky enough to have that problem.  You won't be out any money in the long haul, but if you don't book now you will very likely be out of a warm bunk.  (There is always a cold tent).
. . Please let me know what you have booked, if you are looking for a "share" at that locations, or if you have spare bunks. 

Accommodations WARNING!

. . Unfortunately, the accommodations in the two National Parks are filling up quickly.  Almost everything is already "sold out."  If you think you want to do this ride, you better book now. The possibility exists that as we get closer to the date several rooms will open up, since there is no harm to booking and then cancelling. You might want to call and see if the park has a waiting list.
. . If you can't find a "room" in the park, you still have the option of camping or finding something at the edge of the park.  Since we have several vehicles on this ride, those two alternatives are workable. We have the possibility of our guests moving the cars to destination points where riders can then us them as needed.
. . Another alternative for those not bringing a guest is to book one of the cabins and then clandestinely throwing a bunch people with sleeping bags in it. It would be much warmer that a tent. Mammoth only has rooms, but there are motels a reasonable distance away.
. . At this time Bob, Bruce, Dave_S, and I have booked rooms/cabins. Please keep us informed of your plans so we can assist.
Tom_E

Yellowstone Climate

     Another topic raised has been the potential for snow during our visit.  That is highly unlikely.  We are touring in the second week of September.  We picked that time very carefully to be after the tourist rush, so we aren't fighting motorist traffic and before the bad weather, so we have minimal chance for snow.  The mornings will be chilly, but at high altitude the sun can get quite warm.
     For climate information here is a link that you can reference: Average Weather In September For Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, USA

High Altitude Cycling

      A number of people considering this trip have commented on worries about the altitude.  About five years ago, before I spent a week in Estes Park, I had similar concerns.  Our cabin was at 10,000 feet and I hiked between it and 11,000 feet.  Before then I had spent time with groups of people in Vale at 5500 feet and skied Vale Mountain at 11,000 feet.
      No one in our party experienced any discomfort or unusual fatigue. Did we do anything different in prep? No, but I suspect our experience is not universal. I would surely recommend everyone become familiar with high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) and high-altitude cerebral edema (HACE). Symptoms range from a combination of headache, insomnia, anorexia, nausea, and dizziness, to more serious manifestations, such as vomiting, dyspnea, muscle weakness, oliguria, peripheral edema, and retinal hemorrhage.  We experienced none of these.
     On our YS Tour I have specifically kept our daily distances short in recognition of these potential issues.  Our first day ride to Colter Bay is flat, meaning those in the van will have two to three days for acclimation to the altitude.
    For further information I suggest you read, Cycling and Performance Tips -- Altitude and Athletic Performance and Altitude 101.

Sam D. bowing out

Bruce, Bob, David Shumaker, Tom,

I've been thinking about this trip, and y'all have already put a lot of work into the planning.
I think I'm going to have to bow out, ....
I'm just too stressed out thinking about getting me (and my bicycle) to Wyoming, about the traffic on the park roads, and worrying about the weather in mid September out there in the mountains.
I think I'll wait till FOGBEES does a more traditional trip in the eastern U.S.......It would be hard to beat
that RAT last year! (and it was so close!).

Thanks for inviting me to go though!

Sincerely,
Sam Denham

ps I did take the altitude concerns off my worry list, after finding out that all the roads would be less than 9000 ft.

Tour Review

Graduate school friend (another Ph.D. physicist) and current member of my political debate group Tom Sherwood spent his college days (about 50 years ago) working in Yellowstone Park.  He has since been back several times throughout the year with his son Mark visiting the park.  Several years ago, he shared his winter pictures of wolf and elk.  I asked him to review our plans and comment.  I placed his response on the POI page.

Bike Yellowstone Lake

A Collection of Bicycle Artices on the Web

This following video http://youtu.be/KZc55KB3q9U is long and tedious but does give an idea of road conditions while riding the south entrance to the park.

Here is a Yellowstone Biking Page. Here is another Yellowstone biking page.

Why you should see Yellowstone by Bicycle

Cycling through Yellowstone and the Tetons

CrazyGuyonaBike Journals

Yellowstone and Grand Tetons
West Yellowstone to Old Faithful
Turtle Adventure (start here and click through next six days)
TransAm Trail (start here and click through next several days)

West Yellowstone to Madison

This is one of the roads on our visit.  although this is a winter ride it gives a view of the road condition.

Bicycling Yellowstone Video

Blog Update

Subsequent to the recent Post/Comment Activity I have modified the Blog as follows:
1) Added a Post Yellowstone Ride Page and put Bob's map and planning on it. If you're thinking of joining Bob on his Post Yellowstone Adventure, please comment on his new page.
2) Removed Gary from the auto-email list and listed FYI ONLY.
3) Revised the PARTICIPANT page (now WHO?) adding Wilma as guest and adding travel plans

Other changes worth noting
1) Bruce has started a "Budget" and put it in the right sidebar, under the Detailed Park Maps.  As a quick comment. Bruce might add a Budget column (or separate section) for those planning Guests, since they would be "pairing" up with their bicyclist in the lodging options.
2) I setup auto-email for this initial planning group.  Anytime someone posts or comments, members of this group will receive an email with the content.
3) I have not added anything YET in the POI (Points of Interest) page, but y'all might want to use it in this preliminary stage to Comment about your "Guest" thoughts.
4) Bob is going to invite members of his past Cross-America tours.

I am reading this

Tom,
Great job putting the blog with all the needed resources together.  A hint to anyone not familiar with this format. One must click on every tab to be certain of seeing all the posts.  And of course, scroll to the very bottom of every page.
After reading the blog and following links and a full 10 minutes of rumination here is what I have to contribute.
1. I'll send Sam Denham an invitation. If Bob has already done so I'll see it when I get to that part of the blog.
2. Wilma is very excited about dong this trip. would prefer the van so she can see and visit along the way, and most certainly would need to be included in all the park related accomodations.
3. I'm also interested in going with Bob on the ensuing 2 week ride to near Denver.
4. I agree that the Frontier cabins are the appropriate price/amenity ratio.
5. The weather channel reported several inches of snow in Yellowstone this week.
6. Some of the out of park motels I checked had severe cancellation penalties but the National Park only requires a 48 hr notice for full refund.
7. I'll compile a simple spreadsheet with suggested route, lodging and lodging cost. Tom and Bob are already too facile with spreadsheets but I need practice.  I think other folks are more likely to commit if they have a simple and concrete

First Stab at a Route and Schedule

I have made an initial stab at an 8-day route plus a DRAFT schedule.  Please see Route and Schedule pages.

Thoughts About this Blog

. . This blog is less than a week old and our apparent decision to do Yellowstone rather than some of the other options is just that -- apparent.  The other destinations were US 93, Canada 93, and Alabama ala Aussie Bob's route.  Bruce put together a decision matrix which seems to select Yellowstone, but I don't think we can jump to that conclusion until we have more details about what Yellowstone is going to entail relative to timing, convenience, and cost.
. . Bob and Bruce have set a target of about $80/day for any bike tour.  I don't think that a trip to Yellowstone can achieve that metric.  It definitely can't, if staying in motels is required.  I have checked what available in the two parks and we are talking in the $200/night range.  The camping option is considerably less expensive, but is not attractive and marginally acceptable to those expressing an interest in this destination.  Please keep in mind the commercial CAMPING tour that Gary found is $150/day and does not even enter the parks.
. . At this stage of trip development, I am chasing down everyone's suggestions and ideas about what s/he would like to experience on this trip, based on your comments both on the blog and in discussion.  We can together sort that stuff out on the half-dozen blog pages.
. . Because Yellowstone is so immensely popular, even in the off-season of September, I have selected as priority #1 establishing a candidate list of places with a bed or bedroll for everyone to peruse and comment.  We most likely will have to make reservations no later than November 2013 to have a chance at our preferences.  I have added a suggestion for the Tetons and am working on Phil's suggestions for Yellowstone.  Bruce has the AAA guides which need to be sorted and posted.  As a thought on this topic, with a couple of SAG vehicles we don't have to stay in the parks.  We can roam the perimeters and make daily excursions into them.  At this point we need everyone's contribution to a good list of options.

AAA ebook of Yellowstone

I've downloaded the AAA ebook for Yellowstone. It comes in various formats. I got the Kindle format but can git it for ipad, nook and android if anyone is interested. It has much the same material as the printed paper format but I'm having my usual difficulty gleaning data from the screen as well as I do from hardcopy.
Bruce

Where to Ride

Bruce,

. . You pondered on what to do in Yellowstone.  I got both these from Crazy Guy, the first relates to a ‘hard’ 400-miles in one week tour, the second was undertaken over two weeks but I’m not sure of the mileage.

. . I can claim to be one of the few people who have entered Yellowstone as a pedestrian, complete with family. The ranger was so taken aback, he didn’t charge an entrance fee!

. . We enjoyed picnicking at the ‘secret’ hot springs the locals had told us about and ended our day with a return walk of a few miles back to town. 

Bob

Comments on National Parks

. . Let me comment about National Parks.

. . I have been to most of American’s major National parks and one thing they all have in common is – narrow roads often winding and no shoulders.  What makes matters worse is motorists are almost always distracted trying not to miss that next great view of scenery or some animal.  Active.com rates “the road going to the sun” in Glacier National Park as one of the top ten bike rides in the world.  I was just in that park in the last month and I found the road to be narrow, winding, and with no shoulder.  Without a doubt motorists would have their attention elsewhere.  Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons have no alternative routes through the park. 

. . Yellowstone and Tetons are best visited in September, after the tourist4 season and before the first snowfall.  I would recommend strongly against any other time.

. . Actually the preferred vehicle to ban in the National Park is the car.  They are already banned in the Grand Canyon National Park and there is a movement to ban them in other popular venues.  The issue is the pollution and traffic.  Bikes are not liked only because they can increase traffic jams and can be a safety issue.  Commercial bike tours are banned from entering Yellowstone.

. . However, if any of these parks are our targets we may want to include camping.  Services and motels are sparse and expensive.   

. . My concern is not where to bicycle when we get there.  These are very big parks that we will want to enjoy of many days, not just on a bike but also on foot.  We will find ourselves doing more touring than biking. There is just too much to see and enjoy.  The Yellowstone bike ride that Gary found is a 7-day event and they can’t even enter the park.  As I mentioned earlier, there is no place on this planet that matches Yellowstone.

. . Lastly, if camping, we should not underestimate the bear problem. 

Tom

Preliminary Thoughts

"Where does one cycle once one gets there?" I've never had the pleasure of visiting the place so can't personally speak to the conditions but Google streeting what is available does not look good and the National Park Service Website is not encouraging.

Biking Yellowstone
"Use extreme caution when riding on park roads; roads are winding and narrow while shoulders are either narrow or nonexistent. Vehicle traffic is heavy most of the time. There are no bicycle paths along roadways.

We strongly recommend that safety gear, including helmet and high visibility clothing, be worn by all bicyclists. During April, May, and June, high snowbanks make travel more dangerous. Road elevations range from 5,300 to 8,860 feet (1615 to 2700 meters), and services and facilities are relatively far apart--typically 20 to 30 miles (37 to 56 kilometers).
Motorists frequently do not see bicyclists or fail to give them sufficient space on the road. Drivers sometimes pass on hill crests, blind curves, or in oncoming traffic. Vehicles, especially motor homes or those towing trailers, may have wide mirrors, posing an additional hazard. For more information about bicycling, stop at a visitor center."

. . Perhaps that was written by one of the proponents of totally banning cyclists from National Parks except for dedicated bike paths but the terror of the breeze from rear view mirrors passing within inches of my left cheek trumps any and all other considerations.
Bruce